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Looking Again at Confirmation
What was the value for you in taking confirmation class?
It got people off my back. I began to feel a part of the community. (1)
Self exploration, relationship of personal life and spiritual tradition. New openness about religion. Feeling a common bond with St. Marks. (Met prerequisite) (2)
The beginning of belonging and adult maturity (3)
Making some new friends (4)
Thought provoking. Fun. Increased intimacy. More allegiance to St. Marks (5)
Looking back, I was looking for a path to God, which I thankfully found. It gave me a way to accept God and the Church without being a phony by helping me to reconcile my yearning for belief with my skepticism. It literally changed my life, for which I will always be grateful. (6)
It introduced me to the structure of functional education; it introduced me to a different (and useful) definition of sin, as well as a refreshing way to view a healthy relationship (in principal) between oneself and the Church; and the process made me feel I belonged here (and, although not intensely) to my class. (7)
It gave me an understanding of the breadth of belief possible in the name of Christianity. It gave me an awareness that faith is what avails when fate deals us insoluble problems. I learned that there is no way to "do" compassion -- it is a state of being. Most of all, it enriched my search for my person religion -- a search that has been life-long. (8)
The values were many and varied -- the group process was very healing -- I began to feel that I was an OK person after all. The strong friendships I made have lasted through all these years. (some of us had a reunion at Coolfont last fall -- our 25th anniversary -- and the time we spent together was more meaningful than ever.) I needed a chance to think about faith, the church, and how to build a better life, and I had time to do that in the class. It was a life-changing experience. That fact that it was a prerequisite for other classes was important too. (9)
Meeting people, getting to know the rector, who taught it, and others. "Belonging" to a small group within the parish. (10)
Extremely valuable - began making lasting friendships based on really knowing others -- began to feel known and accepted in this community -- was challenged to think "in a new way." (11)
Value was making friends with a number of people who are still around. (12)
The value of our taking the class was in the friendships made. I note you did not ask directly what were our issues with the class, but I will tell you anyway: Our reasons for not taking it were confirmed. As to the emotional issues, it was especially distressing when one of our teachers was so upset by one of the sessions she was to lead, that she wept openly and at length in introducing that class. (13)
That is hard to decipher. I found the class emotionally destructive in many ways, so it is hard to indicate value. I did come away from the class with a good sense of community with my group-but I must qualify even this praise. We were so guarded and so embattled by a class that did not respond to us and at times, or at least so it felt, attacked us, that we really had little chance to actually explore our lives and faith together. So we are bonded, but I'm not sure that we know one another that well. We didn't have a safe space for that to happen. (14)
I have to say, I had a very good confirmation class experience. It did, in fact, make me feel like I had had THE formative, definitive experience of the parish, and that I belonged. It was an unprecedented and powerful experience for me to be in the company of thoughtful people who were devoting the whole of their considerable energies and intellects to questions of faith. And it gave me a new understanding of Christ's humanity and of the possibility of redemption for us all -- even me. It was the beginning of a process, that continues to this day, of reclaiming the love for and faith in God that I had as a child that was systematically beaten out of me by the Catholic church in which I was raised. (15)
The class ended up adding little value for me - it failed to fulfill any of goals I hoped for. I feel alienated in many ways from the St. Mark's community - as if I am not heard. And while I have made lasting friendships, I could have formed those on a church softball team or an outreach project.
I have heard from several that our cohesiveness is evidence of class success, but I disagree. I feel that fighting the process got in the way of real intimacy for the class. The process also impeded spiritual growth, which was my second objective. And I did not get confirmed. This largely had to do with the fact that I was not in town that Sunday, but I have yet to find someone who will dispute that Confirmation Class at St. Mark's is singularly bad preparation for the rite of confirmation.
I confess one unexpected benefit: a deeper relationship with the clergy. Of course, this was by accident and not design - I am told that the heavy level of clerical participation was unusual (and, according to some, detrimental) for the class. (16)
I enjoyed the class. I liked finding out about myself and others through role plays. I learn best through doing and discussing, so St. Mark's idea of Confirmation Class was perfect for me. It was valuable in teaching me about me, how I relate to others and how they see me. I found and still find the story of Christ, whether it's hidden in five stages, 12 steps, or therapy, a valuable way to make sense of my life. And, it gave me something to do at least one night week in a time when my social life wasn't. (17)
The value in it for me has been the sense of community I have had with my classmates. Beyond that, I seem to have missed something. (19)
This is a question I've been wrestling with for quite some time.
The curriculum was certainly problematic in many ways. But my class mates were
undoubtedly some of the most impressive people I have ever met. (20)
Value of the class? I wasn't exactly accurate earlier when I said the class was irrelevant to my dealing with my dad. The Confirmation class -- in content and process -- was pretty much irrelevant. But the people I now know and love through the class are immensely valuable to me. How lucky St. Mark's is (unfortunately, perhaps, without recognizing the magnitude of the blessing) to have Paul and Stephanie. They continually blow me away with their depth of understanding of the human condition, of things spiritual, and their capacity for loving others. I treasure the insights I have gleaned from them. I am also grateful for the friendships I have developed with other survivors of my Confirmation class. We have developed a level of camaraderie that is unparalleled in my recent life. And it has been exciting to join with such a bright, questioning, insightful group of individuals. But, my God -- what a dreadfully missed opportunity!
We brought so much to the table. We were all excited in varying ways to be in the class. But I soon found myself bristling with contempt as I watched my friends get trampled on. I struggled with my own perception of injustice as my entreaties for change went unheeded. We pleaded. We begged. The class wasn't working. But the process marched on. Functional Fundamentalism proceeded to squelch the intellectual, spiritual, and emotional capacity we had to enrich one another's lives.
We emerged from the class with a bonding. But I am saddened to think that this was, first of all, in spite of the structure of the class, and, secondly, that our bonding is in many respects shallow. The betrayal of trust that the Confirmation class structure perpetuated prevented us from forging the kind of deep relationships that might have emerged from such an extensive quantity of time together. We've been doing that more on our own since the class ended: hence our desire to identify as the Book Club as opposed to the Spring 2000 Confirmation class.
I was most hurt on two occasions. The first concerns the second retreat. I was unable to attend, so I had to learn about the weekend from others. I'm glad I wasn't there. I would have liked to have been with the others in the class, but from what I gather from the others, I don't think that I could have endured the mistreatment. I'm not sure I could have followed through with Confirmation as I did on June 4, so I'm glad I was spared the experience. But it was painful to hear about what happened. It was wrong.
The most hurtful moment of the class came on the last session. Paul handed out information about our options at the end of class, including the basic elements of the liturgy of Confirmation. I was profoundly hurt. I read over the statements about following Christ, and carrying out the mission of Christ, and I realized that the class had been essentially useless in helping me to affirm the statements. Isn't that what the class should be about? If there's an end point that has specific content to it (whatever that is doesn't matter) isn't it commonsensical to talk about it? (21)
Met other members of the congregation and the clergy. (22)
The most important value in taking Confirmation Class, from my perspective, was the experience of bonding with a group of new people. What I liked most was the opportunity to discuss non-trivial, significant life issues with other adults. One does not generally have this experience in the workplace, and there are very few places in our society today where we have that opportunity. That was very valuable to me. (23)
I don't know how to answer the question regarding the value in taking the class. I suppose there are two concrete answers. 1) I am a confirmed member of St. Marks and 2) I got to know some nice people. That said, I don't think that the costs associated with taking the class was worth those two values. (24)
I forged friendships with people who are still part of my core group of friends at St. Mark's. Even members of the class who are no longer attending St. Mark's regularly are people with whom I share a particular bond when I see them. I felt as though I knew most of the members of the class and they knew me. (There were 11 people in our class and 9 people completed the class).
Rick Wilson and I, classmates in the Confirmation Class, taught teens together the following fall.
I felt more at home at St. Mark's following the class. And I was more interested in participating in St. Mark's activities after completing the class.
I went to the Cathedral with Jim Adams on my birthday, April 11, 1981 and was confirmed by the Bishop. It was a lovely experience.
The class journey helped me to understand more about myself - my dreams, fears, strengths and defenses - and it underscored my longing for both "community" and a relationship with "God" - particularly at times when the orderliness and predictability of my life was up-ended.
Confirmation Class gave me a wholly different way of looking at things - primarily through the introduction of categories (Sin, Despair, Justification, Law, Christ, Church) and through our encounter with "Tom and Ann".
I was introduced to a wonderful tool -Defining an issue and then, Dimensioning the Issue - which I have used consistently in my personal life, professional life, consulting practice to get to the heart of issues and to probe perspectives on what is going on.
I was told, going in, that Confirmation Class was intended to replicate the relationship between the Disciples and Jesus. That provided me a context for looking at what was going on during the class - and I, therefore, began to see that discipleship is neither comfortable nor easy, nor is it certain or happy. These insights helped me face the ups and downs of my own life with less disappointment, drama and "finality."
Despite times when we were in tears, our Confirmation Class journey was genuinely funny - I laughed a lot. Laughter had not been particularly associated with my previous synagogue or church experience and I found that refreshing.
I felt engaged and refreshed during the weekend retreats. I had already been at DuPont House during the Men's and Women's Class and I found our first weekend of Confirmation Class much less stressful - and could, therefore, enjoy Rehoboth -the beach, the duck pond, the house itself - more.
I found our Sunday morning worship services on the two weekends to be profoundly intimate and spiritual in ways in which more formal worship had not been.
Confirmation Class convinced me that I had to "come clean" with my parents and let them know that I was worshiping as a Christian and had chosen to become a confirmed communicant of a church. Although I had held leadership roles in UCC churches in Vermont for more than 20 years, despite the presence of a UCC minister at my wedding in Vermont, I never really "claimed my faith". I had ducked the tough issues for so many years and after Confirmation Class I knew that, despite the problems with my family that it was likely to cause, I couldn't be inauthentic any longer. When it came to being true to myself, I simply had to act as faithfully as I could. (25)
Value of the class. Content wise it was negligible. Our class was/still is rich with people who are smart, theologically savvy, funny, warm, engaging, challenging of each other, and emotionally intelligent. Unfortunately little of that was tapped very deeply. Jim Steen was the saving grace. Bonding occurred because we respected each other and had great affection for Jim. This might sound like a harsh judgement of the teachers. Please read it as a harsh judgement of the methodology. Last Saturday night I was sadden to hear Barbara Black's disclosing how hurt she was. It was the system or methodology that was the root cause, she was the carrier. Her hurt can be healed interpersonally (I hope), but that still doesn't address the system's problem or prevent it from happening again.
The value for me in taking the class was the friendships that I made and becoming eligible for other adult classes that interested me that required the prerequisite of Confirmation Class. The actual curriculum itself was not very significant for me, in fact much of it I found very basic and some of it quite boring. (The fact that I have a theological education and significant experience in other parishes and have taught confirmation classes for youth may have influenced this my reaction) (27)
The only value from the course material I've ever been able to determine is that I met and got to know a Jesuit fellow traveler. (28)
It gave us an instant niche at St. Mark's-people to talk to and sit with. We had shared a deep and complex experience, both in taking the class and in being resentful of it. The class itself is certainly valuable. I am perhaps in the minority on this, but I liked the Tom & Ann routine and the whole exploration of our relationship to death. That, after all, is the Big Issue, and I thought it was handled well. In the long run, I didn't even object to the first weekend mind games. And I do think the class is a legitimate precondition to other "functional" experiences, like taking other courses and teaching them. (29)
I loved it - it was a vulnerable period of my life - my mother had just died - indeed she died on the night of the first class (I went to it, one hour after getting the call) (31)
Primarily the shared experience (33)
Self growth. Spirituality awareness. New language and group process. Relationships. Connection to core value of St. Marks. Personal reflection.
It provided an immediate mini-community of fellow class members. We became very close very quickly. It offered a new way of looking at religion that sidestepped most of the obstacles between me and the organized church. It introduced me tot he Functional discipline which has become a very important tool for me to look at my life. (35)
Accomplished all of the above -- I think it helped me understand how things work at St. Marks and encouraged me to get more involved -- I feel that it also succeeded in helping me become a part of a more closely knit community -- within and without the church. (36)
Getting to know small group of St. Mark's people. To join the critics of Confirmation Class. (37)
To understand the raison d'etre of St. Mark's -- its culture, foundation, process. (38)
Meeting the members of the class. Self examination. Background for reaching a commitment decision. (39)
It has helped me be more "a part" of my community. Made it possible for me to participate more fully in the life of St. Mark's and maybe even more importantly in my life. (40)
It was very meaningful, provided me with new insights into my life and relationships with others. However, I was not fully engaged, and I felt somewhat manipulated, and I felt my privacy being invaded. But I "went along." And suddenly we were welcomed and became a part of community. (41)
It was the first experience I had had for being truly know by other people. It was my first experiences as an adult where I was up against something I couldn't fix (Tom and Ann) and discovered I could not only survive but be joyful afterwards. The second weekend provided me with one of the most "centering" experiences of my life -- I had finally found a firm ground on which I could rely; I became an "open" person for the first time in my life; I learned to connect with others authentically. (42)
It was the way to get to know some people. My group is so enamoured with the experience we had and of each other that we recently went out of tow for our 25th reunion weekend. 10 people attended out of 15 in the class. Only 4 of us still attend St. Mark's regularly. (43)
To appreciate the value of community, reaffirm my spiritual journey and sharpen my ministry. (44)
Not much. (?) I wouldn't have much to complain about. I was very critical of the process used. I have a major in guidance counseling in education and I was frankly appalled at the methodology. (45)
Small groups made it comfortable for me to participate, though some sessions were anxiety producing. I found a group of friends who continued to meet, who knew each other well. I could take other classes -- the next one was about Teaching in Sunday School -- leading to SS teaching -- leading to teaching in an adult class. I could make an informed choice about whether I wanted to be part of St. Marks and to what extent. -- but I wanted to participate fully. (48)
Bonding with other members. A few insights. Not much else. (49)
Help in dealing with personal issues and in bringing honesty and authenticity into personal relationships (including my marriage). Getting to know such fellow class members . . . (50)
I got to know some people. (51)
I learned 1) the value of getting out of my head (intellectualizing) and getting in touch with my feelings; 2) how to talk feeling talk, using "I" statements; 3) how each of us has an authentic core of gut feelings and a whole lot of "stories" we have lived and are still trying to sort out; 4) that most of us cover up the real stuff in "3)" with lots of nice talk that is boring and not life giving; 5) that finding and telling our stories and gut feelings in "3)" makes each of us feel alive, authentic and connected to each other. (52)
Very valuable from standpoint of forming rewarding relationships with other St. Mark's members. Marginal value in terms of content. This was the Penniman material often generated the begin of really exciting dialogue which was promptly (rest cut off in photocopy) (53)
As I stated above, the value for me in taking the class was to become a member of the church. I understood from the Intro class and from my knowledge of the traditions at St. Mark's that the course would be taught using the "functional education" model, and that there would be a great deal of self exploration and experiential learning. What this was not something that I particularly wanted to pursue, I decided that becoming a member of St. Marks was important enough to me that I would take the class and approach it with an open mind. I also thought it would be a good chance to meet some of my fellow parishioners, as I had in my other courses. (54)
I was new in D. C. -- just divorced with my son. It gave me a place to find myself and a voice -- and a community to be with. It filled my life-expanding it in community and depth (rest cut off) (55)
The value was realized: I gained new friends, a new job, and a new direction in my life. (56)
It gave me an introduction to the common language that defines life at St. Mark's as a community. It helped me to build a core community of friends. It assisted me in confronting a range of important life issues and realizing other's experiences were not so different from my own. (57)
Meeting good friends. Introduction to some concepts of func. ed. Some personal growth. (58)
Experience in all the above. Feeling a sense of accomplishment and connectedness. Making friends. Finding my "strengths" to offer the community and thereby becoming more known. (59)
Confirmation Class was extremely valuable to me for one key development: during the Eucharist at Blue Ridge on the first retreat (Tom and Ann), I experienced God's presence like a gentle puff or wind coming through a window. . . nothing lingering but a felt presence. This has remained with me as a reminder that God's spirit is real even if I really haven't felt like it since quite like at Blue Ridge. Also, I should point out that while I really learned nothing about religion, I was going to be confirmed into, I did make some strong friendships which are just as strong today as back then. And I should mention, it did get me into St. Marks. More on that below (60)
Same (as previous question), orientation to the parish and its processes (61)
Loved Bill Baxter and the enigmatic Harriet Gregory --- was asked to teach Sunday School next Fall. Religion began to make sense. Great people and weird people. Weekends away. Unusual conversations. Made new friends (not in military). The community really came together for me when I took on designing and leading 5 August services while the Rector was on vacation! (62)
Value: Unknown benefit before I stared; It allowed and provided resolution and context for my grief. Death of my 2nd son Peter age 3 months. It is an eternally growing religious path. I can honor all part of life. The most valuable and unique part is to honor Unit 4! Despair, and my role in it (sin). No other Christian Education I have ever seen honor despair in spit of Christ on the cross. "My God why have you forsaken me?" being central to our lore. Teaching, and categories allow a language where Christian language can be symbolically used powerfully by one and all without hypocrisy, blasphemy, or idolatry. (63)
It was the major turning point in my spirituality and a new direction for my life. (64)
Developing a strong small community within the St. Mark's congregation. Experiences, as a participant, of the St. Mark's model of experiential education a la Penniman. (65)
From this point of view -- that of a person wishing to explore the meaning of Christianity -- St. Mark's confirmation class was useless. I was really perplexed by it . . just found it annoying exercise that did get to some issues I was interested in (is life without God totally meaningless, feelings about death) but never in a way I found useful.. When we finally got around in the last class to reading the book of Mark, the focus was completely on the confusion of the apostles and Christ's teaching was never even mentioned, the meaning of his life never explored. (66)
Bonding with many wonderful people through story telling and exploring difficult issues. Recognizing the relevance of theological principals to everyday living. (67)
Became close friends to several people and got to know others in the class. Learning experience. Helped me understand something more about myself and my strengths and limitations. Several useful concepts, e.g. concept of sin as missing the mark. (68)
Full membership in the community, learned some of the insider language, build close, intimate relationships which have not lasted. (69)
I learned a new way of being, more authentic than the play acting I'd learned/been taught. (70)
1) Meeting lifelong friends. 2) Liberated from anxieties and prejudices about religion. 3) Getting to know Jim Adams. 4) Helped us decide to join St. Mark's (71)
Meeting some great people. One of the teachers broke the barrier between Teachers and Students and actually interacted with us. Several classmates stayed at St. Mark's for years, but only 2 of us remain members. We are good friends. (72)
For sure it changed my life, but if you asked this in 1976, the answer would have been different than today. Then I was (fairly) young; now I am not. The value has evolved. I like the word "fermented." (73)
I bonded with wonderful people who are a vital part of my life still. (74)
It gave me a reason for living and was a great help for me in experiencing life from day to day. (76)
I found the class extremely valuable. It led me to a deeper understanding of my own spirituality and challenged me to examine my thoughts and feelings about God and my place in the world. I also think that a fundamental part of the confirmation class is to ask individuals and the group to examine their beliefs about what they want out of a church, and ultimately about God, and then to test those beliefs. The stark conclusion is that we all have conflicts between what we say we want and what we really think and do. Invariably, I sinned by professing that I wanted to be in a community that lived in a certain way and then I actively went against my own protestations (I don't think that I am describing this very well). (77)
See pp. 28-33 of my book Skeptic in the House of God. (78)
Bonding with other members. A few insights. Not much else. (79a) I would agree (79b)
It was really a course in Adult decision-making and dealing with insoluble problems. It was life-transforming and continues to be a dynamic part of how I think as well as a fond memory. (80)
I met some wonderful people who I still enjoy. (81)
At this point - being able to have authority in filling out this form. (82)
It got me stirred up in all sorts of ways. I can still recall during the time the class and I were in what I later learned was Unit IV, that I got up in the middle of the night several times to write and write about my feelings about issues in my life and where I found myself - this was a new experience for me. What did this have to do with church? I was totally confused and didn't know where we were going. But I would never consider dropping out. We were all lost … together. And in class, I (sometimes) talked about my "feelings," another new experience. I was feeling very close to the people in my class and felt accepted and loved by them. This was an extraordinary experience and time for me, especially Sunday morning of the first weekend when I told people about "where I am now."
It was also the beginning of the road for me in functional education. Immediately after completing CC, I was asked at Shrinemont to teach a class (My Name is Asher Lev) by Tom Lorimer with Linda Jones (Meade); the next year I took the year-long course taught by Jim Adams during which we created a single (!!) lesson plan; we spent most of the year talking about "Things It Should Help Us All to Know." I then taught Junior High for two years with Eileen and later Shakti Putnam, with Charlie Marks as our supervisor. I have continued to take and teach classes on a regular basis ever since, such as Leadership (taught with Ann Hartman); Hope (Chuck Jaekle, Josie Jordan, Anna Marie Basile); Confirmation Class (several times), with various folks, including Scilla Adams, George Keeler (2x), Marilyn Meek, Roger Craig, Matt Ossolinski, Susan Higman, Will Thompson, Barbara Black, Nadine Hathaway, Rebecca Fey, Martha Connor-Donnelly, Jim Adams, Shakti Putnam (may have been Amanda Putnam by then), et al. In the old days, the teachers, co-directors, clergy, and supervisors met once a month in the church basement and the meetings were always well attended - your supervisor wouldn't let you not attend. We puzzled over the Categories. This was a small community within the community and we thought we were pretty special, I guess. That was a time when St. Mark's itself was still pretty small (no 9 o'clock service) and as they said in Cheers, everyone knew your name. My closest friendships have tended to be with folks associated with the Christian Education program.
Classes I took following CC were very valuable in helping me move in new life directions. I took the Power class, and then ran for ANC Commissioner; succeeding, I served for over 10 years, 2 as co-chair, and this led to leadership positions in several other community activities. It gave me the courage to preach several sermons at St. Mark's, and later stand for office as JW/SW. Even today, classes I've taken and taught have the power to affect my life e.g., the Fathers' course; Spiritual Journey; Losses and New Beginnings. Functional classes have also led me to take non-functional courses as well (I took Buzz March's Sunday morning Bible classes for years; also Julie Gaebe's courses). The education program @ SM has led me to significantly deepen my faith experience. (83)
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